Newest email from Rev. Codega.
That would be Jenn Steinfeld and yes, that is precisely what I want too! Separate but equal is never truly equal and that seems to be what you’re advocating here. Again, the liberties would require that I incur the expense of hiring an attorney to draft the documents, a notary to certify the documents, and potentially even have to hire the attorney to defend my rights as the case may be when a hospital or provider ignores a Power of Attorney document. As to hospitals not asking patients about religion, rightfully so. And think about it, if you had a member of your congregation that was terminally ill or in an accident, don’t you think you’d have heard about it? Or perhaps that could just go to Our Lady of Fatima in North Providence.
I note you bring up the 3% item. I know several people in the sociological and psychological profession who disagree with you, gay people are more like 5% to 10% of a population. The really stunning statistic is that the Kinsey study identified bi-sexuality as being anywhere from 30% to 40% of a population.
Once I again I will say, giving us marriage equality in no way diminishes your capability to preach. You could stand in the middle of a busy street, wave a Bible in the air and spout off on how women should remain silent and be subjugated to husbands, or whatever you choose to preach. Here’s the relevant section in the proposed legislation:
24 SECTION 3. Chapter 15-3 of the General Laws entitled “Solemnization of Marriages” is
25 hereby amended by adding thereto the following section:
26 15-3-5.1. Protection of freedom of religion in marriage. – (a) Consistent with the
27 guarantees of freedom of religion set forth by both the First Amendment to the United States
28 Constitution and Article I, Section 3 of the Rhode Island Constitution, each religious institution
29 has exclusive control over its own religious doctrine, policy, and teachings regarding who may
30 marry within their faith, and on what terms. No court or other state or local governmental body,
31 entity, agency or commission shall compel, prevent, or interfere in any way with any religious
32 institution’s decisions about marriage eligibility within that particular faith’s tradition.
33 (b) Consistent with the guarantees of freedom of religion set forth by both the First
34 Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 3 of the Rhode Island
Constitution, ordained clergy, ministers or elders as described and authorized in sections 15-3-5
2 and 15-3-6 of the general laws to officiate at a civil marriage shall not be obligated or otherwise
3 required by law to officiate at any particular civil marriage or religious rite of marriage.
As far as the Catholic Adoption agencies, I believe it was decided to close them before the effluent hit the fan. Not because gay rights came about but because the Church decided to preemptively close those agencies so as to appear to be wounded by the expansion of civil rights. Nice try though.
As to the tax exemption issue, I’m all for revoking it when religious organizations use money to influence the political sphere, as has been done by the Mormons. And I know the Catholic church isn’t really innocent in that respect either. All one has to do is look at the Secretary of State’s Lobbytracker (Under e-town crier) page and you’ll see what I mean.
As to the suit against you, you’re right someday it will move forward. And I bet I can predict the outcome, you won’t suffer a bit.
The ProJo poll is fairly representative since they block voting by IP address, so once you vote you cannot vote again. And since you are affiliated with the National Organization for Marriage, please expand on why Brian Brown sent out an email to all NOM supporters to skew the poll yet it still tilts in favor of marriage equality.
Interestingly I make it a point to go by my local Catholic churches around service times. Not a very big crowd and I note that they tend to be older, not younger. That’s the other thing I wanted to ask, what’s the makeup of your congregation along ethnic lines and origin lines? I estimate that the Latino population is fairly large but there is something to remember.
My family is a good example. My grandfather was very religious, my father less so, and me not at all. And as I speak to people who as I said earlier are in the social sciences, the sciences in general, and the I.T./I.S. field, more tend to be atheist than religious. Imagine that, atheism as a function of education. So over time I think you’ll see attendance drop off again. It’s cyclical like anything else.
I understand that being a priest is a pretty good gig if you’re willing to submit to God and sublimate your sexual drives. I wasn’t willing to do either of those.
What it comes down to is that at this point we are at an impasse, unable to really agree on the key issue of marriage equality.
Rev. John Codega wrote:
> MERI has clearly stated they do not want civil unions, they want “Marriage”.
> I forget the former director’s name but she made that quite clear. If you
> are not in favor of changing the definition of marriage perhaps we agree on
> much more. Some of the liberties you seek are not by necessity connected
> with the definition of marriage: they have been so by time and practice but
> don’t have to remain so. Perhaps you might also be surprised that I agree
> that the examples you referenced, and many others, are not justice in today’s
> world. It goes both ways, however. Thanks to the ACLU hospitals can no
> longer ask patients of they have a religious affiliation or if they wish to
> see a priest or pastor before they die? Thousand are dying without the
> sacraments in which they professed their life long. That’s not justice.
> All these issues have becomne increasing prevalent in non-spousal
> relationships. Two old friends who become domestic partners/roommates have
> the same issues. Anyone should have the “right” to grant hospital
> visitation to whomever he wishes, power of attorney, etc. As mentioned
> Friday night, all those thing can – and I feel should – be corrected through
> legislation, not through redefining marriage. I would fight for your visitation of your
> partner in a hospital, without exception, because it is right. The relationships are
> different but according to civil laws I understand that they may be
> respected equally, I don’t have a problem with that. I do have a problem
> granted common-place status to relationship that may make up as few as three
> percent of a population – that’s what redefining marriage would do.
> You mentioned the marriage liberty argument – not me. I have said that
> Marriage is not connected with liberties but is connected with my faith.
> Redefining marriage means that my religious liberty to profess and teach
> marriage is between one man and one woman would be restricted in public and
> semi-private settings. This is a violation of my free practice of religion
> and public speech. I am also concerned that just as Catholic adoption
> agency who received federal funding have had to close, in connected the
> church is already being persecuted, threatening the repeal of tax exempt
> status for their fight against gay marriage, Many in RI wish to do the same
> already. Another point I wasn’t not allowed to make on Friday, with repeal
> repeal of the FOCA act Catholic hospitals may soon be faced with closing or
> performing abortion related procedures. How long will it be before Churches
> in Massachusetts will have their own tax exempt status challenged? In RI, I
> have already been threatened with a law suit because the Church doesn’t
> permit two women or two men to be Godparents to a child. Apparently they
> couldn’t find a lawyer to take the case. Just a mater of time I suppose.
> I have no idea what the “NJ church property” you say I referenced is – I am
> quite sure I never did mention it having never heard of it.
> And please, Tony, can we also agree that the ProJo polls are hardly
> representative of Rhode Islander’s attitudes? Where is M. Charles Bakst
> when you need him?
> On the other email chain – I was misunderstood. I said 150,000 Catholics
> were coming into the Catholic Church on Easter. To clarify -150,00 adults
> are choosing to be baptized or come into full communion (already being
> baptized Christians) in the Faith at Easter Vigil services around our
> nation – hundreds here in Rhode Island. In one night, the U.S. Catholic
> Church will grow by 150,000 adults – which has been the trend for many years
> Peace to you
> Rev. John Codega